Talk:Skull Guard
This is my first page here (in addition to the Codex of Honor which is basically part of it). I hope to get good feedback! I tried not to make them overpowered or overly glorified. I also think the existance of the Institutio Xenos Exitium should be okay since it's not another fighting part of the Chapter, it's there solely for Xenos research about the Tyranids. About the things said in "Philosophy and Way of Life" - I am sure not everyone is going to like that. But this is my idea of the Skull Guard Chapter as I want to see it, so you're very welcome to state your opinion and make suggestions politely. Hope you have fun reading. Anvanaar (talk) 18:43, September 29, 2013 (UTC) Hello there and welcome! Now looking at this, it's pretty solid, especially consider most new articles usually have alot of the same problems which you have avoided. Well done. Now there isn't anything wrong with a down to earth mentality, however some parts are in conflict. You have to understand that Marines are not normal people, they are beyond human, a completely different psychology and might as well be a different species. For an example they are immune to fear, a integral part of humanity. Romantic attachment is not even on the radar or even a remotely remote possibility. Romantic feelings would require a physical chemistry and psychology that just does not exist in marines period. Nothing wrong with a non "holier than thou" attitude and ground level view of people, but romance is a complete no go. Otherwise its a very solid first chapter and i hope to see it continued! EDIT: Also dont worry about feedback, its all very chill around here. BTW, you've got the infobox down but it's best that you also have a Construction and Property Template. It's easy to make. Just take Property (or construction) and put your User Name in there, except replace [ with { Lemme know if you have questions. :P Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 (talk) 22:29, September 29, 2013 (UTC) Hey there :) I understand and agree with everything you said. You seemingly only got that whole "being allowed to have romantic relationships" wrong. I might have to be WAY more specific with that - firstly, it's strictly platonic. No sexual stuff going on there at all. I really searched the interwebs for information about the matter "Can Space Marines love?". It turns out I couldn't find any(!) canon information about the matter at all. Nowhere. And others also couldn't as it seems. What most people come to as closure (I read through an annoyingly high amount of threads on several forums) is that Space Marines indeed can feel love - which, you could say, is absolutely canon and proven. Really, what they feel for their brothers is a form of love. To be exact, every kind of positive feelings toward someone is a form of love. The problem with them is most likely more that they simply never find out what these romantic feelings even are. They are recruited at very young ages, mostly during puberty (I've also heard of canon Chapter's which recruit kids at the age of like six or seven). They most likely didn't even see a girl naked or kissed one in their entire life when they are recruited, and the rest of their lifes is the Chapter they are recruited for. So they never get to know that sort of emotion. Members of the Skull Guard, on the other hand, do - as, well, they are simply allowed to freely have such relationships. (Their Codex of Honor and the teachings of their leaders even kind of motivate them to do so.) It isn't common though, as I said. And there's still no sexual stuff going on - and they also don't live with their partners, they only visit them or meet them somewhere - from time to time, not anywhere near the amount of times we would call normal for such a relationship. They are still - you know, Space Marines. A looot of stuff to do. xP And of course you can't look at their romantic feelings as you look at ours. Of course there's a difference. I mean - a Space Marine could also simply misinterpret his own thoughts and feelings towards a person. "Man, I like that girl kinda as much as I like my brothers. Shit, that's gotta be love." could be an example. xP Especially since they are, as I mentioned, kind of motivated to have such normal feelings just as "normal people" have. (Not that I'm trying to say that's my main thought here - those I told you about above, it's only something that could happen.) And even then - the Skull Guard would not "manually prevent" such feelings (which should be quite obvious). It would be (strongly) against their Codex of Honor and their beliefs. This is the stuff I took into account and thought about when I wrote what you read about the matter. Tell me what you think, I would appreciate it. :) Anvanaar (talk) 00:17, September 30, 2013 (UTC) Despite what you might think, Space Marines don't have relationships at all, whether it be platonic or sexual. It doesn't really make a difference. Not to mention, Space Marines "loving" their brothers is a completely different thing entirely to loving a different person. They're bound by blood, they share the genes of their Primarch-Father. Now I'm going to paraphrase a bit, but I remember reading the Space Marines Battle Novel: Helsreach (you may or may not have heard of it.) And remember reading near the end, Grimaldus (main character Space Marine Reclusiarch) saw two Imperial guards (one male and one female) together is his rag-tag group of followers. I'll not get into any more details other than Grimaldus saw the woman kiss the male on the forehead and snorted, saying something along the lines of: "Humans have such obscure incentives." This pretty much shows that space marines DO NOT hold any real emotion for mortals in the way you think. Sure, they care for them, but more so like a babysitter cares for the kid their taking care of. So, platonic or not, space marines aren't going to have relationships with mortals. The only exception to this is that silly Space Marine video game where there's a hinted relationship with the Captain and Guard lieutenant, but that thing's not considered canon anyway. Regards, Solomus-BlackWingMy Talk 00:45, September 30, 2013 (UTC) UPDATE TO PREVIOUS STATEMENT: Quick check through Helsreach shows me that Grimaldus snorted after he saw them kiss, causing one of his brothers to ask what troubles him. He then replies: "Humans, they are a mystery to me." Solomus-BlackWingMy Talk 00:50, September 30, 2013 (UTC) (Hey, I like that video game! ... which means I like the multiplayer! XD By the way, I never noticed that hinted relationship. I don't even think it's there, I think it's just that Titus simply appreciates her bravery.) Oh, oh, wait - I read that, too! But you don't understand what I mean. My issue with both arguments ("yes" as well as "no") is: Is that because they just can't (meaing they are not capable of it) or did they just never get to know it? Why is this so important? Simple. The former would mean the members of the Skull Guard weren't capable of it either. The latter, on the other hand, would mean they definitely are. That's my issue and the thing that isn't described clearly in anything I've read or heard about so far. (As I said, I searched the internet quite a bit and couldn't even find a hint to a proof for neither "yes" nor "no".) Anvanaar (talk) 01:10, September 30, 2013 (UTC) Yes, I like the multiplayer as well. :P I would go for the former. Think about it. Space Marines are meant - and created - to be the greatest warriors and protectors of mankind. You'd think that the Emperor would have thought that relationships, whether they be sexual or platonic, would hinder this intention. So yeah, I think the former is the one you should go with. Regards, Solomus-BlackWingMy Talk 01:17, September 30, 2013 (UTC) I think you are right there. I will edit that part! Stings a little though. You propably didn't get it (or you did, dunno) - but the Skull Guard claiming to be ordinary humans, their humility and their constant efforts to be humble and ordinary... all that is an extremely important part of their ways and traditions to them. They see themselves as humans (I now already edited the page and pointed that out further with an example of Marines getting a little mad when told that they're not humans, the Skull Guard Astartes really are slightly fanatic about that). I won't take out the part of befriending humans though. It figures way more than the romance part. I can still have them "befriend" people - not as in our normal human friendship, thus the quotes. What I mean is a Marine simply favoring a human over others - maybe simply because they have commendable traits like honesty, eloquence, intelligence or bravery and the Marine respecting that - thus finding their company and having conversations with them to be overall very pleasent and appealing, thus kind of, well, picking them out them to be their "friends". Not "friends" as in "I really like that guy, I really do!", but "friends" as in "This human is a good person and I find his / her company / conversations with him / her to be interesting / appealing. I am a human, so I befriend humans.". xP And since they are actively trying to stay in good contact to the ordinary humans as part of their efforts to be part of the civilised world just as everyone else, that's more than plausible enough and it makes sense. Anvanaar (talk) 01:30, September 30, 2013 (UTC) Update Okay, people! I have now added the chapters "Combat Doctrine" and "Equipment"! There is now also a chart in the beginning of the chapter "Organisation" which shows off the hierarchy of the Skull Guard Astartes Chapter in a simple and coherent way. The next things to happen here: ''- Completion of the chapter "Important Persons"'' ''- Whatever comes across my mind, maybe I will go into more detail about the Hive Fleet, who knows, I might give it a page of its own.'' And I'm also very open for ideas you people might have. Is there something you'd be happy to read more about? Tell me, and maybe I can do something! :) Greets, Anvanaar (talk) 14:24, October 3, 2013 (UTC)